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Right, and this is a very US-centric problem, because elsewhere those third-party messaging apps are more dominant.

Yes. So iMessage is integrated into the iPhone operating system in a very deep way. But that’s not “premium”. That’s anti-competitive.

You wrote in a blog post Late last month, every time there is an outage in Beeper Mini, your credibility takes a hit and you can’t continue playing the cat and mouse game with Apple to keep it running. But you also said that you are still determined to create the best chat app in the world. How does it look?

Well, Beeper Mini was called that for a reason. It was a secondary app with a more limited feature set than our main app, Beeper. Beeper supports 15 chat networks. Beeper Mini supported one. So we decided to refocus our energy on our core application.

So in theory, Beeper could become a really great chat app that competes with Signal or WhatsApp, where both parties (iPhone users and Android users) download your app and go to the app container and message, right ? But Beeper Mini was trying to bring interoperability to two different systems. How committed are you still to that vision?

That is an important point. It’s 2024 and you have a portion of your contact list on each of these different apps because entrenched players have done everything they can to make it very difficult for you to leave their platforms.

It would be virtually impossible to start a new instant messaging app today because entrenched players have a strong grip on being the default app on an iPhone or having a wide set of users. So the way to create a “new” chat application is to interoperate with existing networks. And it will make the transition as clean and simple as possible. That’s what we’re working on.

Part of our vision is to adopt an open source protocol that already exists, Matrix, so when you use Beeper, you will get an account in this open source protocol. You can still message your friends using all your other apps, but if you want, you can also message them from that open source protocol. Right now that’s not the main focus for us, but it will be over time as more and more people join this network.

Well, thanks for taking the time to chat, no pun intended.

You know, you asked, “Were we expecting this answer?” No. The truth is, we made this app and we’re really happy with the result, because people were like, “Wow, this is a great experience compared to the kind of shitty green bubble chats we’ve had before.” .” Everything happened pretty quickly after that.

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